Wealth Beyond Riches: Building Prosperity With Purpose, Values, and Impact
Welcome to Wealth Beyond Riches with Abbey Henderson, CFP®, CEO, Wealth Advisor and Coach at Abaris Financial Group. In this podcast, we help generous, fun, and passionate professionals overcome their biggest financial concerns while leveling up their lifestyles based on their values and vision.
We do this by exploring 'The Five Levers,' which represent the diverse resources each person possesses throughout their lifetime. These levers encompass finances, health, mindset, relationships, and time, offering a holistic approach to personal development and growth.
Join us on this transformative journey as Abbey and her guests draw from years of experience to guide you in achieving your life goals while staying true to your values… but that’s not all. This podcast will equip you not just to build personal wealth, but also to understand how your prosperity can contribute to the betterment of the world around you. By exploring strategies for giving back and making a positive impact, we'll empower you to create a life of significance and leave a lasting legacy of positive change.
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Advisory services provided by NewEdge Advisors, LLC, a registered investment adviser doing business as Abaris Financial Group LLC.
Wealth Beyond Riches: Building Prosperity With Purpose, Values, and Impact
Late Life New Romance, Financial Exploitation, and Undue Influence with Lisa Cukier (Ep. 22)
Imagine a later-life romance that brings not just love but also the risk of financial exploitation.
Abbey Henderson is joined by Lisa Cukier, a partner at Rubin and Rudman and a highly regarded professional in family law, trust, and estates. Drawing from her extensive legal experience and background in social work, Lisa sheds light on the growing dangers of financial abuse in late-life relationships.
As cognitive decline takes hold, individuals may become more vulnerable to undue influence, opening the door to exploitation from new romantic partners, caregivers, or even family members.
Key Highlights:
- Unpack the emotional and financial risks in late-life relationships involving wealth
- Spot red flags of financial exploitation, including sudden shifts in financial behavior or new people making decisions
- Navigate legal options: When to involve probate court or elder protective services
- Understand the critical role of family members, advisors, and fiduciaries in safeguarding against financial abuse
- Learn how proactive planning and open communication can prevent future legal battles and financial loss
- And much more!
Connect with Abbey Henderson:
- LinkedIn: Abbey Henderson
- Abbey@AbarisFinancialGroup.com
- Website: Abaris Financial Group
- Facebook: Abaris Financial Group
- Facebook: Abbey Henderson: Trusted Financial Advisor & Coach
- Instagram: @trustedadvisor_coach
- LinkedIn: Abaris Financial Group
- X (Twitter): Abaris Financial Group
Connect with Lisa M. Cukier:
About Our Guest:
Lisa Cukier is a partner at Rubin and Rudman, specializing in family law, litigation, and trust and estate issues. She has been recognized on the Massachusetts Super Lawyers list for 19 years and is a member of the Massachusetts Lawyers Weekly Circle of Excellence. With her background as a social worker, Lisa brings a unique, empathetic approach to her legal work, particularly in navigating complex family and financial dynamics.
WBR_EP_22
Welcome to Wealth Beyond Riches with Abbey Henderson, CEO, Wealth Advisor and Coach at Abaris Financial Group. In this podcast, we help generous, fun, and passionate professionals overcome their biggest financial concerns while leveling up their lifestyles based on their values.
We do this by exploring 'The Five Levers,' which represent the diverse resources each person possesses throughout their lifetime. These levers encompass finances, health, mindset, relationships, and time, offering a holistic approach to personal development and growth.
Join us on this transformative journey as Abbey and her guests draw from years of experience to guide you in achieving your life goals while staying true to your values… but that’s not all. This podcast will equip you not just to build personal wealth, but also to understand how your prosperity can contribute to the betterment of the world around you. By exploring strategies for giving back and making a positive impact, we'll empower you to create a life of significance and leave a lasting legacy of positive change.
Wendy (00:01.67)
Hello and welcome to the Wealth Beyond Riches podcast with your host, Abbey Henderson, where we talk about enriching your life in every way. I'm Wendy McConnell. Hi, Abbey, how are you? I'm good.
Wendy: Just to prep everybody, it's early on a Monday morning when we're recording this, so we promise to get better as we go along.
Lisa Cukier (00:04.31)
Okay.
Abbey Henderson (00:13.156)
I'm well, how are you, Wendy?
Abbey Henderson (00:22.471)
Exactly.
Wendy (00:26.78)
So we do have a guest today.
Abbey Henderson (00:29.275)
We do, and as usual, amazing woman. I feel like most of our guests are women, of course. And I want to welcome and introduce Lisa Cukier. Lisa is a partner in Reuben and Redmond's Family Law, Litigation, and Trust and Estates Department. And when you all go on their website, you will see that her list of accolades and awards are just two.
Lisa Cukier (00:31.598)
Okay.
Abbey Henderson (00:58.951)
and publications and engagements are just too numerous to list today. Otherwise, I would take the whole podcast. But I thought I would highlight just a couple. In 2024, she was named to Massachusetts Lawyers Weekly Circle of Excellence, as well as named a leading family lawyer in Law Dragon 500.
and she has been selected for the Massachusetts Super Lawyers List, I believe for the last 19 years. So, Lisa, welcome. Thank you so much for joining us.
Lisa Cukier (01:30.231)
Thank you. Thank you. It's delightful. It's delightful to be here. Thanks for having me.
Abbey Henderson (01:35.397)
Yeah, of course. So we are going to talk about a topic that I don't think gets enough attention. And it centers around romances later in life and the risks involved. But before we get to that topic, I would love if you would just tell us a little bit about sort of your journey to this area of the law and why you chose to.
Lisa Cukier (02:00.939)
Thank you. So I started off as a social worker a long time ago, 30 years ago, and I decided I wanted to continue to work in systems involving family dynamics and navigating families through turbulent times. But I wanted to do it as a lawyer, not as a social worker. I felt that I could have a greater impact as a lawyer than I would as a social worker.
but I bring the two disciplines together in my work. So I am an intuitive person. And so as a lawyer, I draw on my social work skills. And even though I'm not practicing social work at all, I'm exclusively a lawyer. I draw on those skills. I draw on strategies of intervention and the tactic that I learn as a litigator and my work with families, both as a social worker and a lawyer.
and I brought it together for the purpose of representing families and individuals, especially families of wealth, in connection with navigating relationships and finances, both of which are incredible lightning rods for emotional content.
Abbey Henderson (03:16.997)
And you and I are so aligned because I'm a financial advisor and a life coach. So the importance of bringing together both the more technical nuts and bolts kinds of skills, a finance or in your case, the law, with all of the other softer skills on how to navigate, particularly in your case, the family dynamics of estate planning, which are endless.
Lisa Cukier (03:45.053)
Yes, absolutely. I enjoy it.
Abbey Henderson (03:47.771)
So what we're actually gonna talk about today, as I said, is the risks involved with relationships and romance later in life. And I'm curious, because you've made this one of the niches you work in, is that right? Yeah, how did you end up there? Because there are so many places you could have ended up in this.
Lisa Cukier (04:06.345)
That's correct.
Lisa Cukier (04:11.485)
Yes. So I started off with guardianship and conservatorship law and representing families or individuals where there is an individual with diminishing capacity or a mental weakness. And that led me right into trust litigation and will contest litigation. Sometimes people sign trusts and wills at a time when they are mentally weak or potentially lacking capacity or they are subjected to the
undue influence or financial exploitation of someone else. Sometimes the financial exploitation or the undue influence comes from family members, know, children, one's own adult children or one's own spouse or or brother, sister, siblings, know, nephews, nieces. Sometimes it's a neighbor. Sometimes it's a landscaper, a house cleaner. And sometimes it's a new romantic relationship. In all of these cases.
no matter who it is, who is seeking to exert influence, what it results in if there's an individual who is either lacking capacity or who has a diminishing capacity. They may be competent, but for one reason or another, whether it's a dementia such as Alzheimer's or normal pressure hydrocephalus or a Lewy body disease or a vascular dementia, or whether it's a medical condition such as
cancer or a cardiopulmonary issue, whatever it may be, sometimes medical issues or dementias can sometimes create a slight decline, a diminishment of capacity that may not be a full -fledged lack of mental capacity, but is just a little bit of diminishment. And in that scenario, there is opportunity for influencers.
And sometimes well -meaning individuals or not so well -meaning individuals, we don't know, will sometimes seek to help or seek to intervene or seek to intrude. Sometimes it's a well -meaning neighbor who then starts to help, sees how much money there really is. They might help with bill payment. They might help with shoveling the walkway. They take in the mail. They help open the mail. They see what there is and they become a trusted confidant. And before you know it, whether it's a neighbor,
Lisa Cukier (06:36.865)
one of the adult children, whether it's a sibling, a paid employee, a new relationship, whatever it is, sometimes there is an opportunity for influence because there's dependency, trust, and confidence by a person who is starting to experience a diminishment of capacity. And that creates a ripe scenario for a potential financial exploitation.
Abbey Henderson (07:04.775)
you're making me think of a situation so early on in my career. It's right when I started my own firm in like 2001, 2002. And I had a client at that time that her personal trainer was paying her bills. And it made me, it just set off the warning bells in my head. And then in this case, there wasn't really anything in place to protect this.
this woman. And it did turn out to be fine. so what what can people do to sort of mitigate these these risks?
Lisa Cukier (07:44.494)
Yeah, so there are two different types of claims at law. One is an undue influence claim and that situation, there are many steps that could be taken before we ever get to litigation. Litigation is very challenging for families. So if there's an opportunity to create resolution short of litigation, I recommend it because litigation is emotionally difficult and expensive and it can create
it can create a worsening of relationships all around and a lot of mistrust and non -cooperation and acrimony, which you're trying to avoid as people are aging. You don't want them to be stressed out and feeling acrimonious towards you. So, you know, there can be conversations and communications and letters written. There can be interventions through a coach or through a care manager or through a social worker. There can be interventions through family members.
There's many different things that can be done that way. But if we're not able to resolve through natural non -litigation, more organically created solutions, then it means potentially going to court. And a claim for undue influence is something that would be brought as a complaint in court. can be brought, it's typically brought in Massachusetts at the probate and family court. It would be called an
equity complaint, seeking a declaratory judgment, seeking to have the court declare what should be, which may be different than what is, it may mean voiding and turning back deeds, wills, trusts, rescinding gifts, rescinding or revoking beneficiary designations. It could mean disgorging assets that somebody has retained wrongfully.
and it could mean putting assets into a trust for the protection of the aging individual, or it could mean creating a settlement agreement where everybody is deciding what the disposition of assets should be that makes the most sense so as to end the litigation. So that's one way to go. Another way, which is not an equity complaint at common law, but in Massachusetts we have a statute.
Lisa Cukier (10:05.664)
that relates to financial exploitation of people who are aging. And by aging, know, the statute really sees rather young people as aging. The statute says anybody 59 years or older is considered of that age worthy of being protected, age -related worthy of, everybody's worthy of being protected, but by age at 59, the executive office of elder affairs,
has a statute and regulations that apply. And that's still quite young, 59 is quite young, you know, but at that age, that's the age at which our legislature deemed that people should be protected from what's called elder financial exploitation. Even though individuals are rather young at 59 through many, you know, more decades, but in any event, this statute requires that
Abbey Henderson (10:39.195)
Mm, yeah.
Lisa Cukier (11:01.521)
the Department of Elder Services be called for most cases. There's a small private right of action, but I don't want to go into the exception. For the most part, it's all handled through the Elder Abuse Agency, the Elder Service Agency in the area where the individual resides. There's many different protective service agencies, location by location, based on geography.
So the relevant agency would get involved and file a complaint with the probate and family court alleging financial exploitation. And the two standards are slightly different, but the outcome can be the same either way. The difference is that with an equity complaint alleging undue influence, you are hiring a private lawyer to turn back a gift or void a will or
revoke a deed, you're changing things with court action privately. And with the financial exploitation claim, it's handled by a lawyer who represents the state elder protective service agency. So it's slightly different. The outcome can be the same, but some people prefer to handle it privately because you choose your lawyer, you choose your strategy, and you choose the way that you're going to approach this and the way you're gonna resolve it.
and there's no state action other than having the court involved to assist.
Abbey Henderson (12:33.247)
So could you talk to us a little bit for either loved ones or you know we have a lot of advisors listen to this podcast too like what are some red flags that we should all be looking for for the you know the older people in our in our lives or client base where you know our antenna should go up.
Lisa Cukier (12:54.537)
Yeah, that's a superb question. there are red flags and these cases are rather formulaic. Whenever I'm on the phone with a prospective new client and listening to the story, whether I'm representing the so -called elder themselves or whether I'm representing the new romantic interest who doesn't understand why these children who are perfectly well to do already.
who have lives of their own, careers of their own, why these adult kids from a prior marriage are getting involved, or whether I'm representing the adult children or some of them or family members potentially against a new romantic relationship, whoever it is that I'm representing, there is a lot of mistrust and there is almost a formulaic way of the influence occurring. You'll start to see
isolation of the aging person. And you'll start to see contact seeking to help. So maybe contacting the financial advisor saying, I would like to withdraw a million dollars. I'm going to help so and so pay bills. That is a red flag. You know, when, somebody says I'm going to help pay bills, it may be so well intentioned and it may be so needed.
But that's a red flag, you wanna start looking at it. When suddenly calls are not being made by the client of the financial advisor themselves, but start being made by family members, by adult family members, or the new romantic interest, or an ex, or somebody else, that's curious, know, like we younger people.
contact our advisors all the time, directly. Nobody does that for us, you know? And so that's formulaic. That's a sign. When suddenly after 20 years or 30 years of using the same lawyer, suddenly the individual is brought to a brand new lawyer and that lawyer is the lawyer for the alleged influencer, that's a sign, you know? Suddenly, well, here's another red flag. You're a financial advisor.
Lisa Cukier (15:12.343)
and you start getting phone calls from various adult kids and the new romantic interest. And everybody seems to have the most recent durable power of attorney and each one nominates the caller. And you're looking at five different powers of attorney all signed in a one month period. And you're thinking, what is up with this? That's a red flag. So there are some serious red flags.
Abbey Henderson (15:35.003)
you
Lisa Cukier (15:39.043)
Another one, it relates to dependence. Another one might be that your client, if you're a financial advisor, your client seems to need a lot of care right now and a lot of support and looks to somebody else to answer questions, literally turns their head and looks. You're meeting with two people, by the way, one of the red flags is that you're not meeting with your client alone suddenly. There's somebody else in the room. There's somebody else on the Zoom. There's somebody else on the phone.
and you either hear your client deferring, you hear them stop speaking when you ask a question and defer to the other person, or you see them on the Zoom or in person looking to the other to answer the question for them or deferring, that is a red flag. So if you're a financial advisor, that's when you call me, that is the red flag. It's formulaic when there's influence. In those situations, there are many safeguards.
that can be taken. And when those safeguards are not undertaken, then you start to see people simply steamrolling and taking over for someone. And you see that person deferring and being very suggestible and not answering questions accurately or at all. And you start to see slippage in memory. Those are signs.
Abbey Henderson (17:02.227)
And as you were just talking, I was thinking about how important it is in a way to avoid a lot of this, to work this out far in advance. So if you are, you know, if you're one of our listeners,
invite your kids to have a relationship with your advisor so that there's an open communication with everyone before it's an issue. Have a conversation with your advisor about who do you trust? What are your wishes? What do you want to happen if anyone in the circle, your advisors, your kids, whoever, has a concern? Because I imagine if those
conversations are happening when everyone's healthy and happy and good relationships. It can eliminate a lot of issues.
Lisa Cukier (17:53.907)
I agree. The other thing that financial advisors do, which is wonderful, and I don't think that people realize quite how important it is, is they will take a holistic approach to their client service and they will recommend a lawyer, an accountant, a whoever, a coach, whoever it is. And it is that team or they'll work with the team that exists already. That's fine too. But it is that team.
that needs to get together when one of those professionals believes that there may be something unusual going on. And then you want to contact the other professionals. It may be that one of the people on the team is a geriatric care manager or a neurologist or psychiatrist, psychologist, PCP. So include your medical professionals. so financial advisors say all the time, we're very holistic and we work with the team.
Abbey Henderson (18:42.788)
Hmm.
Lisa Cukier (18:49.247)
Well, that is excellent and continue it, don't ever stop because the minute that suddenly somebody else appears on the team and you don't know this person or suddenly traffic is being directed by one of the adult children or a new romantic interest, then suddenly you want to really explore that with the other professionals on the team. And you want to then decide together what did our client when he or she was most
capable of working with us. What did they say? Who was their trusted person? And how are we going to make sure that our client is protected and that we're taking orders from the right person or that we're bringing this to court for a guardianship or conservatorship if we're looking at a set of competing documents and we don't know who really is in charge, you know, some people think, just go with the last one in time. The last one in time revokes all prior.
But what if the last one that was signed in time was signed in favor of an influencer or the financial exploiter? So you don't want to just default to the last document that was signed, the last in time, because that might not be the one that your client really wanted you to follow. So you want to get together with the team. You start calling people and just checking in.
Abbey Henderson (19:51.866)
Mm.
Abbey Henderson (20:09.583)
And if you've had that relationship all along, you're so much more sensitive to smaller, this doesn't seem right. So drawing on your social work background, what role do, let's just for argument's sake, let's assume that the children are not the exploiter or the influencer. What role do kids have to play in these conversations?
particularly early on with their parents if they do have a concern.
Lisa Cukier (20:44.859)
So not all parents want to discuss their finances with their children. And not all children and parents have relationships of trust. And so it's really case by case. It does make sense for parents to decide who their trusted people are. It may be an advisor or it may be one of the children or it may be all of them.
Abbey Henderson (20:50.554)
Yes.
Abbey Henderson (20:56.72)
Mm -hmm.
Lisa Cukier (21:14.617)
I do agree with you that letting everybody know what things look like early on in the adult children's lives is very important because it sets expectation. And what could be said is, I am getting remarried and I am going to need to look after this person. It doesn't discredit our family history. And I need to make sure that this person who is likely to, let's say,
outlive me is supported into the future. And when that person dies, they'll have an income interest. When that person passes away, then the assets, the corpus will then revert to the family, you know, that kind of conversation. Or perhaps the conversation is, I always wanted to take care of the children and that's what it's going to happen. And when I am not here any longer, it's for you. It's not for my new spouse, you know? So whatever the conversation is,
Abbey Henderson (21:57.713)
Mm -hmm.
Lisa Cukier (22:13.122)
it should be had. a lot of times those conversations are hard and parents don't want to discuss what assets they have with their kids. It's private, you know, and there's no obligation to discuss it. And some parents have kids who are still, you know, launching and they want to have, they want to make sure that those children have a fire in their belly and are going to work hard and not just count on inheriting in the future. So there's a real motivating interest to not tell the children what's going on.
but there's gotta be somebody, tell the advisors and perhaps sit with the team. Tell your financial advisor, your lawyer and your accountant. Those are your three key people. And you want to let them know what's going on and you wanna make sure that they're going to communicate with each other. So you wanna let them know who's who on the team and encourage the communications. I have one client who has no children and no spouse and she came to me 12 years ago.
She's a business woman and she does quite well. And she said, I am afraid that as I age, someone's going to take advantage of me. She has assets and no spouse, no kids. And she wanted to leave her assets to charity, but she's concerned that somebody is going to take advantage. And this was 12 years ago. She is now needing more of my help. So back then she nominated me to serve as her trustee in the future.
and she nominated me as the attorney, in fact, under her power of attorney. And she said, when the time comes, help, you know, be there, help me. And I am now in touch with the team, with the tax accountant, the financial advisor and her physicians. And we're talking about what can we do to give her maximum self -determination, maximum privacy, maximum independence in the community.
and maximum autonomy and privacy while still protecting her and meeting her needs. And that's the communication that we've got going. I just literally brought in a care manager for her so that there's somebody to visit her at home and help her with the day -to -day stuff. But we're going to make sure that she's protected. I'm in charge of the team and I'm going to keep her at home until the very end with services and supports. She can afford it.
Lisa Cukier (24:33.77)
and we'll make sure that she lives a comfortable life with as much self -determination as possible. And we're doing it as a team of professionals.
Abbey Henderson (24:41.233)
And what I love about that story is she was proactive. Like there was no scrambling when it got to that point. It was all, you know, there was a plan.
Lisa Cukier (24:50.603)
there was and the difference here is that she had nobody. I mean, she had friends and she had boyfriends, you know, but, she knew that she was going to be single. She knew this 12 years ago. It's different when there's somebody who is in a marriage and who has adult children. Typically they do their estate planning, you know, especially business owners and, and, and people who have worked hard all their lives and who have earned and saved.
and they go to their estate planners and they choose a default for the decision -making, which tends to default to spouse and children. And they do that as a default thinking, I will never need that. I'll never have a day of incompetence in my life, but just in case I'll nominate my spouse or my adult kids. And then as they start to age and they get a diagnosis like Alzheimer's, and I should mention,
A lot of people get a diagnosis like Alzheimer's who never thought they would have an incompetent day in their lives. And they get that diagnosis at any age and they reject it. They say between clenched teeth, this will not happen to me. And it does. And so they start to reject their own estate plan and the designations for fiduciary, the people who are going to be in charge. They suddenly don't want their kids to do it. They don't want to bother their spouse anymore.
And that's when I'm brought in to serve. And so their lawyer or their financial advisor or tax accountant will say, you don't want your kids to do it. You don't want your spouse to do it, but this is who you chose. But we know the lawyer who will do this. And so they'll bring in a lawyer who will serve as fiduciary and will assist with decision -making and provide protection.
and calm the family too, because the family gets very anxious and having a neutral in place will sometimes calm things. And then the neutral can determine how much money, how much rather information about the money, about the assets, how much information to disclose. Because you don't necessarily want to over disclose if your client doesn't want that, but you don't want to under disclose either. There's a nuanced balance to
Lisa Cukier (27:15.014)
finding the right measure of disclosure to family members so that everybody knows that things are being well managed, but people are not learning too much if my client, the individual, does not want to share too much.
Abbey Henderson (27:31.116)
So this is a little bit off on a tangent, but as we start to wrap up and people are thinking they might want to name an attorney as their fiduciary, what do you think is, and I realize you're a little biased, but what do you think are the most important attributes of an attorney to look for if you're considering that person to fill such an important
Lisa Cukier (27:54.985)
attentiveness responsiveness fit and and dedication you just want somebody who's gonna be there when you need them and it might be saturday night at two a yes i'm warning to a it may be at any time it might be christmas morning you just want someone who is dedicated attentive responsive and who's not going to disappear because there is nothing worse
Abbey Henderson (28:14.339)
Thank
Lisa Cukier (28:22.064)
than a non -responsive fiduciary. If you've got a fiduciary duty to somebody because you're serving as trustee, conservator, guardian, or attorney in fact under a durable power of attorney or proxy under a healthcare proxy, you can't disappear. You gotta be there. And fit matters, you know? So my clients do tend to be business owners. They are aggressive personalities and we work well together. They're smart people.
who are energetic. And so I tend to be a good fit with people like that. Executives, I tend to be a good fit with that. There are people who don't want the energy level that I bring. So fit is a very important aspect of choosing the correct fiduciary.
Abbey Henderson (29:11.621)
just going to throw in on top of that. That there and you please push back if you don't agree with this, but I would tell clients that they want to work with someone who does a fair amount of this, that you don't necessarily want to hire your closing attorney or your next door neighbor who's an attorney, or the person who drafted your documents probably a little bit too long ago, that you really want someone that is operating in this area.
Lisa Cukier (29:31.482)
Yes.
Abbey Henderson (29:41.228)
the time. Would you agree? Okay.
Lisa Cukier (29:42.182)
I agree 100%. Yes, it's a great addition. Yes. Yeah.
Abbey Henderson (29:46.791)
All right, well, since we need to wrap up, I could talk to you all day about so many other topics too. But what would you like listeners to take away from this episode?
Lisa Cukier (29:54.936)
Yes.
Lisa Cukier (30:01.856)
I think it's okay to reach out to your professionals when there's a concern about diminishing capacity. People see it as a reason for shame or they just simply feel ashamed or they feel scared or sad. And what happens is that family members and spouses and new romantic interests will, but especially spouses.
will compensate for it. They'll start taking care of things and finding ways to just compensate, know, and then it becomes a private non -disclosed issue. The physicians don't know and the advisors don't know, and then it blows out of proportion. So I think one of the takeaways is there's nothing to be ashamed of. There's a lot to be afraid of.
and you need to have the right professionals, the team, the long -standing existing team involved when that happens. Don't keep it the best kept secret because something could go wrong.
Abbey Henderson (31:13.115)
I love that, be proactive and there's no shame in it. These things happen to the best of people. well, where can our listeners learn more about you and your practice?
Lisa Cukier (31:22.028)
That's right.
Lisa Cukier (31:29.186)
Thank you. So I handle a lot of crisis as you may imagine. So I'm going to give you my phone number and my email address, but I will say you can always find me on LinkedIn. It's just a great easy way. You just put my name right in there, Lisa Cukier, and I'll pop up. But my phone number is 617 -966 -9582. You can call or text. It's my cell and it's with me 24 seven. And my email address is L C U K.
I E R at Rubin Rudman dot com and that is spelled R U B I N R U D A N dot com.
Abbey Henderson (32:12.465)
Perfect, we will maybe not put your cell phone number on the show notes, but we will definitely put your emails and your LinkedIn so people can find you there. Thank you so much for joining us. This was a really fascinating conversation about a topic that doesn't necessarily get enough attention. So thank you so much.
Lisa Cukier (32:19.285)
Fantastic. Thank you.
Lisa Cukier (32:30.347)
Thank you.
Wendy (32:31.608)
Okay, so Abbey, how do people get in touch with you?
Abbey Henderson (32:35.271)
In all the usual ways, email it's abbey@abarisfinancialgroup.com, the website, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and they'll all be listed in the show notes as well.
Wendy (32:48.334)
Okay, great. Well, thank you for listening today. Please like, follow, and share this podcast with your friends. Until next time, I'm Wendy McConnell.
Thank you for listening to Wealth Beyond Riches. Click the follow button to be notified when new episodes become available, and be sure to visit our website at www.abarisfinancialgroup.com.
The information covered and posted represents the views and opinions of the guest and does not necessarily represent the views or opinions of Abaris Financial Group.
The opinions voiced in Wealth Beyond Riches with Abbey Henderson are for general information only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual. To determine what may be appropriate for you, consult with your attorney, accountant, financial or tax advisor prior to investing. Guests on Wealth Beyond Riches are not affiliated with Abaris Financial Group or NewEdge Advisors, LLC. Advisory services offered through NewEdge Advisors, LLC, a registered investment adviser.